A round-table discussion on human trafficking
Posted on 06-23-10 · Sassy Lawyer Tags: culture, law, moneyAbout two weeks ago, I received an invitation from the U.S. Embassy to participate in a round-table discussion with Ambassador Harry Thomas Jr. on human trafficking. Links to the pertinent documents were provided but I also went back through all the emails from PREDA, I checked published reports… and it was emotionally battering. It was enraging and it was frustrating because there it was staring at me, the most serious reason why I lost interest in law practice — nine times out of ten, the legal system simply does not work. If the topic was hard to read about, it is even harder to write about.
Don’t think that human trafficking is something that only concerns lawyers, social workers and NGOs. And don’t think that human trafficking only applies to girls and women who are forced into prostitution. Human trafficking is much broader than that. Your house helper may have arrived at your doorstep as a result of some sweet talking recruiter who may have inveigled money from her family with a promise of a good-paying job for the girl as a sales clerk in some department store. If a recruiter goes to a barrio and tells the young girls that she could bring them to Manila to become sales girls but she instead delivers them to a pimp, there is human trafficking. In the same manner, if a recruiter targets boys and promises them legitimate work with good pay at some factory and they end up in sweatshops with minimal or no pay and they are not free to leave at will, there is also human trafficking.
The round-table discussion is an offshoot of a report released last week by the U.S. State Department categorizing countries under Tier 1, Tier 2 and Tier 3, depending on their compliance with standards set down by the Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2000, or the TVPA for short, a U.S. law. Tier 1 is the best category to fall under and Tier 3 is the worst.
My first reaction was what business would the United States have imposing standards set down by its domestic law on the rest of the world? It would make more sense if the United Nations were making the categorization, but the United States? The answer, of course, is money. Aid. The United States extends aid to some 70 countries to assist efforts against human trafficking, including the Philippines. A representative of USAID was there (a high school classmate, amazingly enough) to drive home the point. The aid angle notwithstanding, part of me balks at the arbitrariness of the categorization. But more on that later.
In the State Department report, the Philippines is categorized as Tier 2 Watchlist which means it is in Tier 2 but in danger of slipping down to Tier 3. In short, one of the concerns is to determine whether the Philippines is still worth extending aid to. The standard is simple — is the government doing enough? It doesn’t matter if the network of NGOs is doing a swell job. If the government is failing, the categorization stands, it might even go lower and aid might be withdrawn.
It will sound crass and totally heartless saying it this way, take it in whatever way you like, but from one perspective, it’s like protecting an investment. The reality is that it takes money to launch — and sustain — any campaign. But. Given my background, when anyone says human trafficking, I see people. I see faces. I see victims. And I KNOW that human trafficking is not something so simple that a law or two, and money, can solve.
Toots Ople pointed out that NGOs do a lot to educate and inform the public (aside from documenting and instigating the prosecution of human traffickers) — what to be wary of, what to be careful about, what precautions to take but I think that, at the grassroot level, we need more than information and warnings. We need a cultural re-orientation.
I wouldn’t even attempt to decipher the ins and outs of human trafficking in other countries. But, in the Philippines, it’s more than about poverty. To say that a lot of people get victimized because we are such a poor country and decent-paying jobs are so hard to find is an oversimplification of the problem. A lot of people feel obliged to earn MORE than what they need to support themselves because, in our culture, we are raised to believe that we have an obligation to provide for so many other people — parents, grandparents, siblings and even members of the extended family like uncles, aunts and cousins. And we are raised to believe that if we fail to provide for all of them, then, we are worthless and ungrateful. What are the terms we often hear… Walang kwentang anak… Walang utang na loob.
When parents make their young daughters skip class to audition for some Little Miss contest, or some dance contest where they are made to mimic sexy dancers, they’re actually teaching their girls that it is alright to become sex objects if it means making money. It’s like saying school can get you a job with so-so earnings but being a star, even if it means wearing skimpy clothing and gyrating, will pay better. How far is that from the thinking that it is alright to sell sexual favors if it means a more comfortable life for the parents compared to how they will fare if they were to live on the salary of a secretary?
Rina David (of the Philippine Daily Inquirer) extended the cultural context even more. She has talked to OFWs who have admitted that the main motivation in leaving the country is to escape from their husbands and unhappy marriages. So you have the lack of divorce and lack of a second or third chance for a happy marriage as a motivation that can drive women to accept shady employment abroad. And she said that in a country where the government encourages the export of labor as a matter of policy, and where both government and media glorify OFWs as modern-day heroes, then, we have a scenario that’s ripe for exploitation.
How much worse is it in cultures where children — and even women — are, by law and tradition, little more than chattels whom parents and husbands can legally bind into servitude? Is the withdrawal of aid the solution? And here is where the arbitrariness of the categorization becomes very pronounced. There are governments that cannot easily comply with internationally-accepted standards simply because the laws of their countries are patterned after their own cultural practices and traditions which are peculiar to them. And I won’t say good or bad — just peculiar. Meaning?
Okay, consider this. Just because the U.S. was ready and willing to outlaw slavery after the Civil War doesn’t mean there was a unanimous global change of the status of slavery which slipped from good (or acceptable) to bad (and unacceptable). It’s a political thing. And a product of cultural evolution. Countries don’t go through the same process of cultural evolutions, given their unique histories, and when they do, they don’t happen at the same time nor pace. In short, just because by today’s Western standards, human trafficking is evil and unacceptable, it doesn’t follow that the whole world will agree at this point. Maybe, they all will, eventually, but it won’t happen when and how fast according to the wishes of the United States. I’m over that stage where I judge cultures based on the standards of my own upbringing and education. And I’m not pointing this out either to “justify” the failure of the Philippine government. The Philippine government is simply a failure at many things — including the fight against human trafficking.
In that sense, the aid becomes an object of blackmail. Abide, or else. And I don’t understand how that can help. I mean, isn’t the ultimate goal to eradicate human trafficking so that there won’t be any victims rather than a mere show of power? I kinda think that countries that have a harder time dealing with the problem are the ones that are in more serious need of financial aid.
From another perspective, this abide, or else attitude becomes counter-productive as it might lead to a situation where the recipient governments will be forced to come up with convictions just for show and never mind if all the wrong persons are getting convicted.
It was a one-hour discussion and we barely touched the legal procedure issue. Why are prosecutions proving so futile? Why are there so few convictions?
If you’re a victim of human trafficking, you were saved, you want to prosecute those that have victimized you… And, two years after you were able to break free from your captors, you’re still waiting for trial to begin. And you just want to get on with your life, turn a new leaf and leave all the nightmares behind you… Would you hang around waiting for the government prosecutors to move their asses and start prosecuting the case?
And the thing is, what will get the Philippines to shake off the Tier 2 Watchlist label is for the government to come up with more convictions. Another report will be released next year and the concern of the U.S. Embassy is for a better categorization for the Philippines. Eric Mallonga, columnist for The Manila Times (and a friend from U.P. Law who’s also with the Bantay Bata Foundation), blurted out that cases don’t get concluded within a year in this country. And I agreed — it’s impossible. You talk of one year and the police and prosecutors are still throwing papers back and forth. And what — we’re hoping for more convictions by the end of a twelve-month period in time for the next report of the State Department?
The complexity of the problem is staggering but, as someone pointed out — I forget who — we have to start somewhere. But where? And where does aid figure in when we consider the corruption in government? Oh, yes, we’re talking about aid granted to the government and not NGOs and civic organizations which are really the ones doing the bulk of the work against human trafficking.
I don’t know if it was a fruitful discussion. I got the feeling that we were all looking at the same issue but looking from different directions. But then again, the real objective was to raise public awareness (that will hopefully put pressure on the government) but not — as Rina David put it — the kind of roller coaster coverage of the media where interest rises and wanes. Sustained coverage is the better way to go.
Where do I fit in? I’m no longer a newspaper columnist, so… Tet Robielos, the USAID representative and my high school classmate, was urging me to “volunteer.” Eric Mallonga overheard and said amusedly, “Volunteer… ang daling sabihin, ano (so easy to say, right)?” I told Tet she had to remember that I live in the boondocks and I don’t want to do legal work again. But, I can write…
Photo op after the round-table discussion on human trafficking (left to right): Tet Robielos (USAID); Toots Ople (Blas F. Ople Foundation); the lady from ABS-CBN Foundation (sorry, I lost all the business cards); Atty. Eric Mallonga (Manila Times); Ambassador Harry Thomas Jr.; me; Rina David (Philippine Daily Inquirer); Dahli Asperilla (Malaya); Wossie Mazengia, Deputy Press Attache of the U.S. Embassy; Doreen Bailey, Political Officer of the U.S. Embassy.
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If we’re talking about the local situation, I’ll comment that human trafficking with the purpose of illegal recruitment are exceptional cases. Most of the anecdotal information I have is that the perpetrators are only after the financial side of the deal but will not compromise the subjects on any “illegal” employment.
Let’s say we’re discussing an international thing – illegal immigration which can be the same with human trafficking. If we’re going to probe this considering latest situation, this is what is happening in the U.S. of America -
“Illegal” immigration is not a crime according to Obama’s Napolitano (Google the Mexican’s immigration to U.S. of America). The closest explanation I’ve read is that it is not a felony but a civil crime of which the penalty is removal but not a incarceration.
They have entered the U.S. of America’s soil legally but have just overstayed (maybe with a 1 month permit to stay and has overextended for 10 years) To be PC, never call them illegal immigrants but undocumented aliens. Just in our country, squatters should not be called as they are but undocumented settlers.”
I think you should read RA 9208. Illegal recruitment can exist without human trafficking. Illegal recruitment as the first step in illegal trafficking happens only when the recruited persons are actually transported. If money was collected under false pretenses but the victims were not transported, there is swindling. Estafa, in other words. An entirely different crime.
Illegal immigration is not human trafficking unless certain conditions are true, i.e., there was fraud, force or coercion etc. If an alien goes to another country on his own knowing he does not have proper documentation, he violates immigration laws and he becomes subject to deportation.
Human trafficking applies to person or persons other than those transported.
Sass, you’ve commented -
“I think you should read RA 9208. Illegal recruitment can exist without human trafficking. Illegal recruitment as the first step in illegal trafficking happens only when the recruited persons are actually transported.”
I’m very much in agreement with that.
However, I’m also in complete agreement with this gist of a situation that human trafficking is not a predication of an illegal recruitment.
The same could said about sex ed, contraceptives and the government’s sudden craze over it. Aid. Simply because if the government would be able to pass the RH bill into law, more aid would come from the US so that we can “manage our population” ease up the pressure on our resources. This would some how slow down the rise of poverty thereby making our country more stable for foreign investments.
What is the government’s sudden craze about it?
Maybe just some sort of a government agency’s aggressiveness.
“Simply because if the government would be able to pass the RH bill into law, more aid would come from the US so that we can “manage our population” ease up the pressure on our resources. This would some how slow down the rise of poverty thereby making our country more stable for foreign investments.”
Any reference for that one? Or it is just your speculation? If that is so, then it is just your speculation. Tell the readers.
Trosp: It’s not speculation. It’s public information. It’s even on Wikipedia, and if you doubt the article, read the referenced documents. Here’s the link: National Security Study Memorandum 200
It’s part of US foreign policy “that population growth in the least developed countries (LDCs) is a concern to U.S. national security, because it would tend to risk civil unrest and political instability in countries that had a high potential for economic development.”
That’s why it has been the mantra of every administration to say that stability is needed in order to attract foreign investors.
One way of stabilizing the Philippines is to “manage” its population since the government sucks in providing jobs. Less mouths to feed, less angry people in the streets.
Consider the US AID for contraceptives, information materials, even training for personnel as an initial investment to pave the way for the entry of US investors.
Think about it, the government is already deep in debt, officials are engrossed in raiding the public coffers and there’s still money left to buy contraceptives to be given away to the public for free? Not unless Uncle Sam has footed the bill.
@ Ms Connie: Sorry, I completely went off topic with my first comment and this response to Trosp. I was merely bringing up another related issue.
But going back to human trafficking, I agree. We rarely hear any government crackdown on it. How can our officials lead the way when in most cases, their household help may have even come from human trafficking! So if they are indeed to go seriously against it, they would have to start at their own homes, farms and haciendas.
Hay, naku, agree ako dyan sa population control. It solves a lot of problems including global warming. I blame the government for kowtowing to the Catholic Church. I blame the Catholic Church for its medieval stand on the issue.
@Jhay
Thanks for providing the link.
In the first place, you can have that explanation included in your previous comment on our reproductive health bill. What seems to be confusing me is your insistence, still with your follow-up comment, that RH or a managed population is related to foreign investment in our country, specifically U.S. of America’s business investment.
By that, are you telling us that one that decides the U.S. business investment in our country is how we manage our population? I don’t even know your definition of managing the population.
India and mainland China are one of the most populated country in the world and American’s investment there, which are substantive, are based on what they can sell in those countries and their cheap labor for international market.
Let’s get in touch with reality. I can accept that I might be the one who is not. I can still learn.
Have you read the article and the referenced documents? Sayang lang naman ang effort kung hindi mo pala binasa. Because it answers your question that yes, in its relations with the Philippines, the US considers population management as a way of reaching stability in our country.
Hindi ka talaga nagbabasa, India is included in the list of developing countries that needs stability and population management is one of the prescriptions of the US. In China, their “One Child” policy is their population management. So the US has a different approach in dealing and trading with China, like demanding that it floats its currency.
I’m in touch with reality and the things I’ve just shared here are part of that reality.
But indeed you are right, and I’ll borrow a line from Yoda:
“Much to learn, you still have.”
Of course I’ve read that article.
I’ve mentioned in my previous comment that why you didn’t include in your comment. Maybe, you found that one out after I challenged your comment. Is it or it is not?
BTW, are you sure that there is no updated release of that National Security Study Memorandum 200?
It’s irrelevant if there’s an updated release of the memorandum or not, for it’s been an integral part of US foreign policy since it was first released.
That is the reason why USAID sponsors contraceptives, pamphlets on reproduction and family planning and other materials.
So you can always say it is irrelevant if you don’t want you’re comment to be challenged? Why it was updated is not relevant to you anymore.
LOL. That is you in as discussion.
@ Trosp:
“Maybe just some sort of a government agency’s aggressiveness.”
If indeed it were just one government agency being aggressive, then the RH bill would not have gotten a substantial support from both houses of Congress to make it past the committee level.
Simply because more foreign aid means more funds to pocket for our legislators courtesy of their pork barrel projects like district/provincial-level RH centers and the like.
@ Jhay
I think the problem is that I say a small thing and you’ve gotten paranoid perhaps because you’re mind is so made up.
Have some beers in girlie bars for a refreshment (or a reboot)…
Girlie bars are common destinations of trafficked girls, Trosp.
Sadly, girlie bars are the only place the authorities scour once in a while for trafficked girls. While else where in plantations, factories, households and mines in the country, women are not just the victims of human trafficking.
I hope you know the reason why girlie bars are the only place scoured by authorities for trafficked girls.
And you believe them?
Is it?
If we’re talking about local girlie bars, trust me, it will be an exceptional case if you can find one that employed trafficked entertainers.
I’m talking of my experience. For them to be apprehended working without working permit, underage, and everything else, their usual plea is they were forced to do that kind of job. They will be on the same job again hours after they are released from being apprehended.
There is over supply girlie bars entertainers since the late 70′s. Nakapila lahat ang mga aplikante.
It is true that there are trafficked entertainer for pleasure up to early 70′s. That was the time when Filipino women will rather die of hunger than to work in those kind of places.
Time changes everything. This kind of job is something that can’t be ashamed of anymore from that time onward. They were called club workers (taga club ika nga) or bellas or hostesses before and now they’re guest relation officers if they’re working in a girlie bar. Escorts if it they’re working as an escort who can do anything at a flick of a finger of their customers. Physical attendant (eventually it will be a physical therapist) instead of a masseur if they are working in a massage parlor. Something at least to glamorize or to give pride to their job.
I can even tell you that there are parents who are developing their children to be a japayuki.
It’s not paranoia. It’s what you get from studying and learning to look at the big picture of which small things are just a part of.
Lastly, we’re talking about human trafficking and you’re asking me to go have some beer in girlie bars? Indeed, someone needs a reboot. But it’s not me.
Of course that is your explanation for it. I don’t believe it though.
Your comment -
“Simply because more foreign aid means more funds to pocket for our legislators courtesy of their pork barrel projects like district/provincial-level RH centers and the like.”
So you’re saying that more foreign aid etc… being pocketed by legislators is not a paranoia on your part. Saying it without providing any proof (similar to the corruption in Mexico) that it is happening in our country grand scale.
Actually I thought I was very polite in calling you a paranoid instead of a stupid politically biased commenter. Well, you might misinterpret it again. I’m not saying you’re stupid. I’m just telling you that if I’m not polite, that might be the case.
Girlie bar is a suggestion that come in to my mind. For me, doing something totally reversed to what you normally do is a refreshment. Take it or leave it.
BTW, I’m not aware of the foreign aid is tied up with pork barrel…
Jhay, I think the problem is precisely that there is no “craze” on the part of the Philippine government. Too few prosecutions and even fewer convictions. Hence, the Tier 2 Watchlist label.
one thing about the difficulty in prosecuting trafficking cases is the difficulty in locating the victims. true, a trafficking case may be filed in the place of residence of the victim even if the arrest was made somewhere else. however, in many cases, after the victims have been rescued, they would be off to some other places in search of work.
plus of course, the mentality of Filipinos to forgive and forget
Naku, that’s a huge thing — the Catholic upbringing that it is something saintlike to forgive and forget.
Thanks for the insightful take on this issue. I’m reading from the US with only a marginal understanding of the Philippine context (having spent a summer there some time ago–doing nothing illegal, I assure you). While I appreciate your sensitivity toward variations in cultural transformations, I think it’s worth pointing out that no where in the world is slavery legal. (I’m using the broadly accepted definition of forced work under threat of violence for no more than subsistence wages.) I also think the generalization that countries with the worst trafficking problems are the ones in most dire need of financial aid from the US may be a worthwhile contribution to the overall discussion. But cases such as Saudi Arabia, Russia, and Japan prove the situation to be more complex than that.
We’re not talking about “legality” of slavery today. I consciously avoided using the work legal. We’re talking acceptable/unacceptable. There are still countries where slavery is culturally acceptable — it just goes by other names like “bonded labor” or “child labor” which, of course, gives legal color to slavery but since slavery is not the term used, those countries can always argue that it does not exist.
Re “no where in the world is slavery legal”
That really depends on how you define slavery. In India, “bonded laborers” (the Dalits, in particular, also known as the Untouchables) are legal workers and many work to repay debts from generations ago. Based on the report of the State Department that triggered the round-table discussion, “Niger does not… prohibit other forms of trafficking, such as forced prostitution of adults.”
Re “But cases such as Saudi Arabia, Russia, and Japan prove the situation to be more complex than that.”
True, that’s why I say that culture, as shaped by the peculiar history of every country, plays a great part in this phenomenon.
Bonded labor is not legal in India. The Bonded Labor Abolition
Act dates back to 1976. Enforcement is clearly lacking, however.
I should have used the word “acceptable” or “practiced.” Or, perhaps, legal in practice but illegal on paper.
Absolutely fascinating post. I read your post and then bought the New York Times as is my custom. I was quite staggered to see on page one an article dealing with slavery here in NYC (Weds. June 23)
Jody
According to the report of the State Dept., “The United States is a source, transit, and destination country for men, women, and children subjected to trafficking in persons, specifically forced labor, debt bondage, and forced prostitution.” Emphasis mine. And I recalled all the movies I saw about white girls being kidnapped and kept drugged until they are sold abroad.
He he he…I might be OT again or the nth time.
I’ve watched the movie “Taken” which starred Liam Neeson which is about a story of a young white American woman (his daughter)and her white American woman friend kidnaped in Paris by Albanian Mafia. IMO, it’s a very good movie since the baddies were taken out by Neeson the way PC bugs will hate him (rules of engagement was disregarded – the baddies were not given the second chance). They will be sold as prostitutes to Middle Eastener customer.
I’ve also watched an episode of Leverage in which the goodies saved Russian women that were to be sold in the U.S. of America as prostitutes.
I’ve found out that in the 3 Asian countries that I’ve visited, for a woman escort, preference is for Russian woman than American women. The explanation is American women has been into this thing at their very young age. Gastado na kahit mukhang bata pa.
From what I gathered, the group of people who are interested with American women are Mid Easteners. I can’t help laughing, but the main reasons are American women are sexy to them and… uhm… acrobatic (heh, not the pdf one) in bed.
Nakaka-frustrate pala to read from a lawyer mismo that the legal system in the country sucks. Not that it’s not obvious already but coming from a lawyer makes it even more discouraging to make habla. Maka-pag Face to Face na nga lang LOL
Human trafficking really needs to be addressed. Ang daming nababalita sa TV na mga biktima ng human trafficking not just in our country but in other nations as well. Another concern that the new President needs to address. Noynoy, game ka na/pa ba?
Napanood ko nga yung MTV Exit TV ad a few days ago and nakaka-touch ang message niya . Although the ad is more about child labor and exploitation. Try niyo panoorin sa FB page nila or sa Youtube. Mapapa -isip kayo before you buy a new pair of shoes.
Dapat ma-break na din ang culture ng extended families. In my opinion, it doesn’t do the country any good. Nagiging masyadong dependent sa isa or dalawang kapamilya para makapag-aral/makakain ang isang angkan. Kahit sa nearby provinces eh this is practiced.
The thing about changing culture is that you can’t force it. Force it and it’s not effective. It has to happen slowly, people imbibing new beliefs and accepting new ideas along the way. Iniisip ko, if it happens, no longer in our lifetime.
Re: aid. Whether we like it or not, foreign seem to be the only motivator for the government to implement – or at least, they try to – any changes just to maintain or improve our nation’s standing internationally. Like coughing up economic/financial policies just so IMF won’t lower our country’s investment grade.
Re: human trafficking. Would you consider those recruiting teachers, nurses, engineers, computer programmers etc as part of the problem? I think, our culture in general, through out history, just has this intrinsic nature of discontentment. Everyone wants to go somewhere; people think that the grass is always greener on the other side. Prosecution is really a problem when that kind of culture, coupled with the economic system (remittance economy), is the only the only thing that’s keeping things moving, albeit slowly and in circles.
Actually, if the recruitment is in good faith, it’s not bad at all because it’s a chance for the underpaid to find something better. It’s so dehumanizing to be paid a pittance in comparison with one’s skills and talents.
“If the recruitment is in good faith, it’s not bad at all because it’s a chance for the underpaid to find something better.”
This is where it becomes convoluted, since recruitment as money venture becomes more profitable with shoddy stuff. It is like a pharmacist with all the medicines intended for good use but illegal drugs commands better prices.
When a recruiter/trafficker facilitate a skilled professional, he can only get money one way (from the person). In facilitating prostitution, the trafficker is getting money in multiples (from the person without knowing, the end user, the establishment, etc).
In Philippines, the international trafficking is very lucrative business because of abundant supply. It has also better control since it is connected with the military establishment (has assets at the airport, immigration, etc). They gave you prep and how to answer questions. Plus in worst case scenario, it can doctor papers selectively with its master forger safe inside military barracks.
Prosecution is problematic at best, if you consider that those you have contact with are just the 1st layer and understood to be replaceable while the case will drag for years.
Come think about it, the movie TAKEN was chilling when I saw it. Because it has certain efficiency like what I have known in Pinas.
d0d0ng
What efficiency are you talking about in the movie “Taken”?
For me, it’s how the way the main character traced everything (and how he efficiently finished the baddies).
The movie is chilling specially if you’ve a beautiful daughter.
i’ve missed a lot on this site since i was assigned to the province by my new job. btw, nice post. its very insightful and direct to the point.
i agree with what you’ve written here especially on pointing out our culture as main reason of this issue. the government should not only focus on prosecuting alone but also put more effort on advocacy campaign regarding this issue including our culture traits that greatly affects it especially to the people combined with strengthening our welfare system. i may sound idealistic here. if only our country has a good welfare system then crimes like this could really be avoided.
“Don’t think that human trafficking is something that only concerns lawyers, social workers and NGOs.”
it concerns everybody. not only the grassroots are affected by this issue but also those who are in the middle and upper class. i remember, the daughter of my ninong, she was young at that time probably in her teens, and she was almost tricked by a trafficker and almost have her transported out of mindanao. have it not been for a concerned vendor in our port, she would have been gone with her loves ones left in shock. moreover, these professionals are here because that is their job but if there’s no cooperation from the people and the government then their efforts will be futile.
ms. connie, thanks so much for sharing these with us. since i’m into community works now and dealing with the grassroots, i’ll help in raising public awareness on this issue. one of my activities really is integrating values and filipino culture and traits vis-a-vis its effects on our lives on my monthly sessions with them. hoping that gradually people will learn and change for the better.
Ms Connie , once again congratulations on the quality of your article and the debate its triggered here .
First , those aid dollars come from the tax payers of the donor country . When , and I’m using the Australian context here , we read where our dollars are going too and why we can say okay , that’s valid . Then we read about the massacre in Maguindanao . Hmmm….some of those aid dollars were in the form of military aid to help fund the fight against AS and JI . We also read how certain corrupt elements of The Philippines military have been accused of selling arms to those very same insurgents . So the Australian tax payer , aid donor , begins to question the validity of the aid . And begins to question our local members , the parliamentarians we elected , as to why we are paying this money to corrupt govenrment’s . So that’s why the US governemt writes these reports and makes these demands .
Trosp , you are at it again , my question , are you a government plant ? lol.
And both India and China have population control programs in place . Eg ; China the one child policy , and India has a vasectomy program in place . Get the catholic church out of a woman’s reproductive rights .
Isn’t it ironic that people — and governments — don’t listen unless the money angle is thrown right at their faces?
No, I’m not a government plant. (And I’m flattered by that comment).
And what is this “Trosp, you are it again” thing?
You know, Mark, everybody has the right to be clueless. Just don’t don’t abuse it..
Yes it is Ms C , but that’s reality , and so we work within that . Though I do think that most ordinary people are , deep down , more understanding and compassionate than we give them credit for . It’s just that with the everyday pressures and worries of life , mortgage , food , clothing for their family’s etc they do begin to question .
There’s a movie called “The Gods Must Be Crazy”, a comedy with some very interesting philosophical and sociological insights. The first 5 minutes (a narration) is memorable:
A wonderful movie on so many levels . And the quote you posted says it all ! Are we any longer the masters of our own destiny ?